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	<title>Comments for Grace Gershuny</title>
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	<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny</link>
	<description>Organic Revolutionary</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on CONFLICTS OVER ORGANIC STANDARDS Part 3 – What is the future of organic? by Otha Moseman</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/10/19/conflicts-over-organic-standards-part-3-%e2%80%93-what-is-the-future-of-organic/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Otha Moseman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 11:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=11#comment-236</guid>
		<description>Cheers for this interesting blog post. I look forward more of your writing on this topic in the not too distant future. Thanks again</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers for this interesting blog post. I look forward more of your writing on this topic in the not too distant future. Thanks again</p>
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		<title>Comment on CONFLICTS OVER ORGANIC STANDARDS Part 3 – What is the future of organic? by Thomas Pinkey</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/10/19/conflicts-over-organic-standards-part-3-%e2%80%93-what-is-the-future-of-organic/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Pinkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Oct 2010 01:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=11#comment-207</guid>
		<description>This is certainly one of the better posts I have found on this subject.  I would like to know if you have you looked into the other side of the topic of natural health?  Personally, I think a decent argument could be made either way, but please let me know if you have any more sites or articles on the Web to verify what you are discussing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is certainly one of the better posts I have found on this subject.  I would like to know if you have you looked into the other side of the topic of natural health?  Personally, I think a decent argument could be made either way, but please let me know if you have any more sites or articles on the Web to verify what you are discussing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CONFLICTS OVER ORGANIC STANDARDS Part 3 – What is the future of organic? by Margarito Markee</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/10/19/conflicts-over-organic-standards-part-3-%e2%80%93-what-is-the-future-of-organic/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>Margarito Markee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=11#comment-205</guid>
		<description>This is probably one of the best sources of information I have located on this topic.  Have you though about the opposite side of the argument of natural health?  To be candid, I think a good argument could be made either way, but let me know if you have found more sources on the Web that back up what you are saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably one of the best sources of information I have located on this topic.  Have you though about the opposite side of the argument of natural health?  To be candid, I think a good argument could be made either way, but let me know if you have found more sources on the Web that back up what you are saying.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More backwards hype about &#034;the soul of organic&#034; by gracegershuny</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/02/02/more-backwards-hype-about-the-soul-of-organic/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>gracegershuny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=7#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification, Gordon, and I apologize for the smear of associating you with OCA and Cornucopia.  

I know that a lot of small organic dairies (and many small organic farmers in general) accept the assumption that tighter standards protect them from the large scale bad guys, but it just ain't so.  Certainly tighter standards translate into more paper work, but that is only one place where they advantage the larger, more mechanized (industrial) operations.  It might be worthwhile to talk to some small (and large) farmers who choose not to be organic or who have opted out of the system.  I know that in the Northeast, for example, local organic lamb is just not available because of the prohibition on any use of parasiticides, though there may be some who have figured out how to do this.

The point is that the important place for rigor is in enforcement - the strictest standards in the world are a joke if not properly enforced, but more flexibility (which is closer to what I would advocate) would allow those who are genuinely trying to do the right thing to make mistakes without being kept out altogether.  

As I often like to say, all the problems of the food system cannot be solved by the organic label.  Making it more difficult to be organic will only make it less likely to help those problems it can address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, Gordon, and I apologize for the smear of associating you with OCA and Cornucopia.  </p>
<p>I know that a lot of small organic dairies (and many small organic farmers in general) accept the assumption that tighter standards protect them from the large scale bad guys, but it just ain&#039;t so.  Certainly tighter standards translate into more paper work, but that is only one place where they advantage the larger, more mechanized (industrial) operations.  It might be worthwhile to talk to some small (and large) farmers who choose not to be organic or who have opted out of the system.  I know that in the Northeast, for example, local organic lamb is just not available because of the prohibition on any use of parasiticides, though there may be some who have figured out how to do this.</p>
<p>The point is that the important place for rigor is in enforcement - the strictest standards in the world are a joke if not properly enforced, but more flexibility (which is closer to what I would advocate) would allow those who are genuinely trying to do the right thing to make mistakes without being kept out altogether.  </p>
<p>As I often like to say, all the problems of the food system cannot be solved by the organic label.  Making it more difficult to be organic will only make it less likely to help those problems it can address.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More backwards hype about &#034;the soul of organic&#034; by Gordon Edgar</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/02/02/more-backwards-hype-about-the-soul-of-organic/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=7#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Actually Grace, my "fact"  comes from discussions -buyer to vendor -- with people at Horizon Dairy (Dean Foods) back before "access to pasture" was being defined.  You are right that finally some operations have been cited in recent years. However, my experience in talking to small organic dairy folks and also big organic out here is diametrically opposed to your experience in Vermont.  I mean unless we are just talking about the typical farmer complaints (which have validity, no doubt) about paperwork.

And you are assuming that I'm standing with OCA/Cornucopia on this and I'm not. They way they took on Straus was appalling to me.  Especially the message of methane digester = evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Grace, my &#034;fact&#034;  comes from discussions -buyer to vendor &#8212; with people at Horizon Dairy (Dean Foods) back before &#034;access to pasture&#034; was being defined.  You are right that finally some operations have been cited in recent years. However, my experience in talking to small organic dairy folks and also big organic out here is diametrically opposed to your experience in Vermont.  I mean unless we are just talking about the typical farmer complaints (which have validity, no doubt) about paperwork.</p>
<p>And you are assuming that I&#039;m standing with OCA/Cornucopia on this and I&#039;m not. They way they took on Straus was appalling to me.  Especially the message of methane digester = evil.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More backwards hype about &#034;the soul of organic&#034; by gracegershuny</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/02/02/more-backwards-hype-about-the-soul-of-organic/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>gracegershuny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=7#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Thanks for commenting!  

I couldn't agree more with JTE, and have said some very similar things elsewhere.  

Gordon's comments serve to exemplify my point - the "fact" that you cite comes not from your knowledge of the regulation or how it is enforced, or of conditions on organic dairy operations, but from information disseminated by groups like OCA and Cornucopia.  According to them it is a "fact" that corporate agribusiness tries to water down organic standards at every opportunity, which I know is a crock of dairy manure.

Please note that I fully support the requirement that organic ruminants (that means cows, sheep, goats and a few others) must be grazing as much as possible.  Rather than a "one size fits all" requirement of a certain number of days and/or dry matter from grazing, I would rather see the requirement that every farm, no matter how good a job they are doing, show how they intend to further improve pasture quality so that more animals can graze on it for longer periods.  As it stands now, as long as you have the animals out for at least 120 days you don't have to do better - in some regions that's barely adequate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for commenting!  </p>
<p>I couldn&#039;t agree more with JTE, and have said some very similar things elsewhere.  </p>
<p>Gordon&#039;s comments serve to exemplify my point - the &#034;fact&#034; that you cite comes not from your knowledge of the regulation or how it is enforced, or of conditions on organic dairy operations, but from information disseminated by groups like OCA and Cornucopia.  According to them it is a &#034;fact&#034; that corporate agribusiness tries to water down organic standards at every opportunity, which I know is a crock of dairy manure.</p>
<p>Please note that I fully support the requirement that organic ruminants (that means cows, sheep, goats and a few others) must be grazing as much as possible.  Rather than a &#034;one size fits all&#034; requirement of a certain number of days and/or dry matter from grazing, I would rather see the requirement that every farm, no matter how good a job they are doing, show how they intend to further improve pasture quality so that more animals can graze on it for longer periods.  As it stands now, as long as you have the animals out for at least 120 days you don&#039;t have to do better - in some regions that&#039;s barely adequate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More backwards hype about &#034;the soul of organic&#034; by gordon edgar</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/02/02/more-backwards-hype-about-the-soul-of-organic/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>gordon edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=7#comment-24</guid>
		<description>I think public distrust of the organic label (for dairy, I'm not sure it exists elsewhere in the organic industry) has more to do with the fact that "access to pasture" only means a walk through the field on the way to the slaughterhouse.  I mean geez, every organic dairy logo you can find has bucolic green grass and happy cows whether it comes from an 8000 cow feedlot or a 20-cow family farm.  The problem is that the organic standards say little if anything about grass or cow "happiness", yet organic dairy is sold as if it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think public distrust of the organic label (for dairy, I&#039;m not sure it exists elsewhere in the organic industry) has more to do with the fact that &#034;access to pasture&#034; only means a walk through the field on the way to the slaughterhouse.  I mean geez, every organic dairy logo you can find has bucolic green grass and happy cows whether it comes from an 8000 cow feedlot or a 20-cow family farm.  The problem is that the organic standards say little if anything about grass or cow &#034;happiness&#034;, yet organic dairy is sold as if it does.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More backwards hype about &#034;the soul of organic&#034; by jte</title>
		<link>http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/2010/02/02/more-backwards-hype-about-the-soul-of-organic/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>jte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chelseagreen.com/blogs/gracegershuny/?p=7#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Grace, that's an interesting take on the situation, thanks. My personal belief is that this in part results from selling "organic" as a way for consumers to have "safer" food, not so much as a way for farmers to best care for, maintain, and improve the land while simultaneously producing a viable yield. This is the echo of the Alar scare coming down through the years. Not that I want to eat Alar etc (or want farmers or farm laborers to be exposed to it in concentration), but my interest in organic starts with the land and farm crew, and only as a distant second includes concern for my personal bodily health. In other words, the difference between organic as an ecological movement vs. organic as a food safety movement. The food safety perspective will always be a fear-based perspective, which incites individuals to conceive of themselves as "consumers" and will lead them always to want the strictest possible regulations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grace, that&#039;s an interesting take on the situation, thanks. My personal belief is that this in part results from selling &#034;organic&#034; as a way for consumers to have &#034;safer&#034; food, not so much as a way for farmers to best care for, maintain, and improve the land while simultaneously producing a viable yield. This is the echo of the Alar scare coming down through the years. Not that I want to eat Alar etc (or want farmers or farm laborers to be exposed to it in concentration), but my interest in organic starts with the land and farm crew, and only as a distant second includes concern for my personal bodily health. In other words, the difference between organic as an ecological movement vs. organic as a food safety movement. The food safety perspective will always be a fear-based perspective, which incites individuals to conceive of themselves as &#034;consumers&#034; and will lead them always to want the strictest possible regulations.</p>
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